val wrote:

itpainsme wrote:No! Surgery is not the only way to heal a chronic fissure.

Well, the word "surgery" possibly means different things to different people! When we say it won't heal by conservative methods, it means once a fissure has become chronic, and all other methods have been exhausted, then surgical intervention, ie, LIS, botox or even anal dilation, is going to be necessary.
"Surgery" doesn't necessarily mean major surgery! An ingrowing toenail is "surgically" removed by a chiropodist!!

I guess I never considered Botox as surgery, it was only injections. When I get the flu shot injection, I don't consider that surgery, just a shot. I actually have had an infected ingrown toenail removed and she had to cut down to the base of my toenail to get it all the way out, it involved cutting and some bleeding. I will say that was extremely painful, but still does not even come anywhere close to the AF pain. I guess to me that is more like surgery than getting some injections. I do understand what you mean about "surgery" meaning different things to different people though.

In the UK, we have to go into hospital as a day case, and go under general anaesthetic for botox! It's not done in a doctor's office like a flu injection! You get the full works in the hospital theatre!

val wrote:In the UK, we have to go into hospital as a day case, and go under general anaesthetic for botox! It's not done in a doctor's office like a flu injection! You get the full works in the hospital theatre!

Wow, I am surprised to hear that. If you are just getting Botox without anything else being done it seems like a bit of overkill to get general anesthesia (risks from it and all). I was not sedated at all and honestly it wasn't bad. Sure, the initial injections did not feel wonderful, but after that, I felt nothing. It is interesting how things can be done so differently in different places.

I am not surprised at all!! I don't really understand "just getting botox??" It's a big deal to me! I am not afraid of "just injections" but now I have fissures, swollen o, hems and a skin tag (which is brand spanking new since I got my fissures,) The very thought of anything touching my ass brings tears to my eyes, never mind 3 or 4 needles and with the added gem that : Botulinum toxin is a protein produced by the bacterium Clostridium botulinum, and is considered the most powerful neurotoxin ever discovered. Botulinum toxin causes Botulism poisoning, a serious and life-threatening illness in humans and animals.[1][2] When introduced intravenously in monkeys, type A (Botox Cosmetic) of the toxin exhibits an LD50 of 40-56 ng, type C1 around 32 ng, type D 3200 ng, and type E 88 ng, rendering the above types some of the most powerful neurotoxins known.[3] Popularly known by one of its trade names, Botox or Dysport, it is used for various cosmetic and medical procedures. So, this in mind, it is a very big deal to me at least.

of all the places to hurt wrote:I am not surprised at all!! I don't really understand "just getting botox??" It's a big deal to me! I am not afraid of "just injections" but now I have fissures, swollen o, hems and a skin tag (which is brand spanking new since I got my fissures,) The very thought of anything touching my ass brings tears to my eyes, never mind 3 or 4 needles and with the added gem that : Botulinum toxin is a protein produced by the bacterium Clostridium botulinum, and is considered the most powerful neurotoxin ever discovered. Botulinum toxin causes Botulism poisoning, a serious and life-threatening illness in humans and animals.[1][2] When introduced intravenously in monkeys, type A (Botox Cosmetic) of the toxin exhibits an LD50 of 40-56 ng, type C1 around 32 ng, type D 3200 ng, and type E 88 ng, rendering the above types some of the most powerful neurotoxins known.[3] Popularly known by one of its trade names, Botox or Dysport, it is used for various cosmetic and medical procedures. So, this in mind, it is a very big deal to me at least.

Well, it is definitely a bigger deal than just getting some sort of vaccination. I guess what I was trying to say is that I still don't consider it surgery and neither does my CRS. I would not let myself look up statistics of bad reactions or side effects of Botox before I had it done. I knew I would just obscess and worry about it too much. I tried not to think about a toxin being injected into me, but instead I pictured my sphincter muscle relaxing. I really didn't have any other appealing options. The thought of actually having LIS surgery terrified me and I knew doing nothing would not help me. I was ready to move forward and try to get back to normal. I also felt comfortable with my CRS doing it because he does it on patients before doing LIS. I knew that it was common for him to do the injections. He reserves LIS as an option if nothing else works.
I really hate that any of us have to think so much about our a** all of the time. I hope you get some relief soon. Didn't you say your next step was Botox?

Might be Botox but when push comes to shove NO!! I have chronic fissures. I am not a DR or CRS,dont swim in lakes so what?, Not gay, so what? I got them purely because I must have a small o hole? I dunno. In UK, it is harder to get LIS without exausting all the avenues. And rightly so! No surgeon in his right mind will offer LIS straight away> So botox is what is lined up at this 6 month stage over here. I am nurse trained and wont settle for second best! I agree that Botox injections are not surgery but they are invasive, & painful (alot!)" and a risk!!! I wud be a fool to not investigate what botox is or what any other treatments are on offer? Be it d creams, oils, pills, surgery? Injections are uncomfortable, yes! I have given them and taken them and blood , but injections to a swollen ass hole, skin tags, bleeding blah blah blah - hightlight this!!!!! ???? !!!! I own my own body as u do!!! As for ur comment on surgery, well, ever heard of a hysterectomy? It isn't always done by cutting ones abdomen! (non surgical my backside) A lot are done by Vacuum! So, do you count that as non surgical too? (you get the side effects whatever course your able to take!, I had 4 cesareans and was not eligible for vacuum surgery) Granted I am 42 now and this was in the 90's, but so what, medical science has improved and I run with it as I study on it. I aint a cop out!!! Fissures, Fistulas, Chron's; Skin Tags, Hems, BV, are all as bad as giving birth every bloody day! Dont care where ur from, they HURT LIKE HELL! Thing is, we need to help one another and compare results. Making a Difference to one persons life is fabulous! But imagine helping a hundred and so on and so forth??? This forum is about sharing and comparing and then rationalising. I am sorry to sound abrupt, I just want all the newbies to understand that no one person is right and reading on here/researching/trials/errors by boardies, might and I think/know will improve ur quality of life alot quicker

Well said Andrea!!
At the Nuffield Hospital, I get a letter billing me for a "surgical procedure" - and he just used an anuscope!!
I have always worded my posts that if a fissure hasn't healed and is chronic, and you have exhausted all conservative methods, ie creams, diet and baths, then some type of "surgical intervention" is necessary. I never said, or meant, full blown surgery, just that hospital help is needed, whether that is LIS, botox, dilation, fissurectomy etc.
Up until now, everyone seemed to know what was meant by that!

of all the places to hurt wrote:Might be Botox but when push comes to shove NO!! I have chronic fissures. I am not a DR or CRS,dont swim in lakes so what?, Not gay, so what? I got them purely because I must have a small o hole? I dunno. In UK, it is harder to get LIS without exausting all the avenues. And rightly so! No surgeon in his right mind will offer LIS straight away> So botox is what is lined up at this 6 month stage over here. I am nurse trained and wont settle for second best! I agree that Botox injections are not surgery but they are invasive, & painful (alot!)" and a risk!!! I wud be a fool to not investigate what botox is or what any other treatments are on offer? Be it d creams, oils, pills, surgery? Injections are uncomfortable, yes! I have given them and taken them and blood , but injections to a swollen ass hole, skin tags, bleeding blah blah blah - hightlight this!!!!! ???? !!!! I own my own body as u do!!! As for ur comment on surgery, well, ever heard of a hysterectomy? It isn't always done by cutting ones abdomen! (non surgical my backside) A lot are done by Vacuum! So, do you count that as non surgical too? (you get the side effects whatever course your able to take!, I had 4 cesareans and was not eligible for vacuum surgery) Granted I am 42 now and this was in the 90's, but so what, medical science has improved and I run with it as I study on it. I aint a cop out!!! Fissures, Fistulas, Chron's; Skin Tags, Hems, BV, are all as bad as giving birth every bloody day! Dont care where ur from, they HURT LIKE HELL! Thing is, we need to help one another and compare results. Making a Difference to one persons life is fabulous! But imagine helping a hundred and so on and so forth??? This forum is about sharing and comparing and then rationalising. I am sorry to sound abrupt, I just want all the newbies to understand that no one person is right and reading on here/researching/trials/errors by boardies, might and I think/know will improve ur quality of life alot quicker

Yes, I have heard of a hysterectomy, and yes, I am aware of different forms of surgery. I have also had 4 c-sections. I agree making a difference for one person is great, but who is to say that Botox has only helped one person??? It can be what helps heal many people. I have shared my experience because that is what I have to offer as well as support for whatever procedures people decide to have. Many variables are involved whether it is having LIS, getting Botox or using creams or other methods to heal. Maybe my Botox worked because my CRS does it a lot and has perfected his method? Who is to say? My CRS does not consider Botox surgery and neither do I. I had it done unsedated in his office, not a hospital. The numbing needles hurt for only a few seconds and then I felt nothing. I also had a fistula laid open and a skin tag cauterized at the same time, so my Botox was not just Botox alone. I walked into my CRS's office and approximately 45 minutes later I walked out after my procedures were done. I sat down in the car painfree and rode home. You said that Botox is painful, how can you say that if you have never had it done? It was not painful for me at all. It is a no brainer for me, why have my *sshole cut on if I can avoid it? I got my fissure from being constipated. I will always take precautions now to not let myself get into that situation again. I know what to do now, I know about Miralax and taking a fiber supplement daily. I was unaware of those things before being diagnosed with my fissure.
I wish everyone the best. I offer my experience to others just as others have shared their experiences with me. I have never said LIS is not the right choice. It is the right choice or next step for some just as Botox is for others. We are all different and have all tried different things to heal. The one thing we all have in common unfortunately, is that we have all been through the hell of dealing with an anal fissure.
I wish you the best in whatever your next step is.

Why on earth does it matter so much to you whether botox is considered surgery or not???
And why do you say you consider your botox has "worked?" It may have worked for now, but haven't you read anyone else's experience of botox? Most have gone on to have LIS afterwards because the botox isn't permanent; once it does wear off, most people get a retear.
LIS is a permanent solution, and any retear after it will heal up quickly - can you say the same of botox?
Obviously it is a personal decision, and what works for one person, isn't going to work for another. I have been here a very long time and seen lots of people come and go - and I can tell you with confidence that one shot of botox hasn't worked for anyone that I have seen on here - or indeed in real life.
I think if you are going to take the time and trouble to post something helpful - why do you want to start an argument over something so silly?

Dear ITPAINSME,
In response to your other post : Oh the humanity......(I cannot reply there?)
I am absolutely Flabergasted, Astonished and disgusted at your verbal attack on Dawn. Dawn has been and is a very very valuable member of this forum. Her advice and support to everyone must be credited to her!! I for one back her 100% ....Majority if not all of us, do not have an ass of steel and do not consider these injections so flippantly as you. I wonder why u chose the name you have on this forum! itpainsme!!! YES IT DOES!!!!!!!! So, consider the rest of the human race as just that...HUMAN!