Botox and Haemorrhoid banding

My experience with treatment

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Re: Botox and Haemorrhoid banding

Postby Water Bear » 27 Feb 2017, 02:38

I hope you are feeling better today, mamafizz.

Just an update: a bit over two weeks from my procedures and the swelling and prolapsing is improving. I got checked out by my surgeon because I was worried about the fact I'm having difficulty urinating and a new pain has cropped up near my tailbone.

My surgeon checked everything out pretty thoroughly and reassured me there's nothing sinister going on like an abscess, that this is all to be expected if a haemorrhoid thromboses after being banded. It should gradually get better over the next few weeks. The GTN ointment (Rectogesic) can help.

Everything I read and the doctors I saw explained the banding as a minor procedure that will have you a little bit uncomfortable for a day or two then bouncing around like normal. While this is surely true for the majority, there are people - like me! - who have complications. This experience has made me all the more determined to get to the bottom (excuse the pun) of the reason for developing a fissure and a haemorrhoid - I don't want to go through this again! I would like the bottom to stop ruling my life and preventing me from doing things I want to do. I truly feel for everyone on this forum.

All best wishes to everyone.
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Re: Botox and Haemorrhoid banding

Postby mamafizz » 27 Feb 2017, 19:53

WB, Yes, I am in the recovery mode, mainly the golf ball feeling and spasms higher up to the tailbone and soreness/dull achy feeling. If I am more active it is more intense, days that I am just laying around although it is always there, just not as bad on those days. Takes soo long for this to go away. Mine has been going on at it's worse since End of July/Aug. I have read contradictory info that Physio is very slow but can also aggravate things, I have had 6 children so the pelvic floor has been through quite a bit already. Mainly the hypertonic muscles levator have shortend I suppose and are pulled chronically tight. So that is the challenge to get them back to normal. So I am relying on God for this one!!!! Any other info let me know!!! Can't wait to not think about my rear end anymore I have lost 60 pounds, My fissure was so painful that I could barely eat. So now it's onward to better days ahead...
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Re: Botox and Haemorrhoid banding

Postby mamafizz » 03 Mar 2017, 19:36

WB how is the tailbone pain?
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Re: Botox and Haemorrhoid banding

Postby GilmoreGirl » 03 Mar 2017, 19:58

Mamafizz - have you ever considered seeing a neurologist? Or maybe talking to a colorectal surgeon about the possibility of nerves being involved - maybe something like pudendal neuralgia or levator ani syndrome?

Just throwing some ideas out there!
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Re: Botox and Haemorrhoid banding

Postby mamafizz » 03 Mar 2017, 21:42

8) Hi GG, yes. I considered everything haha.. the fissure pain is much better, the inflammation and burning is gone. And the Spasms are better, but as I am writing the word spasm they start to kick in.. (really weird) lol any way

what do you think about these trains of thought....

1. CRS phone consult said inflamed roids can take months to heal and can pull on the muscles at the tailbone. And also fissure can be bring on Levator tenderness. Can take time to resolve. Taking Diosimin can help. Massage levators can help too. Sometimes 6 months. Fissure although surface healed need 3 months or longer to fully heal so the area will still be tender and aggravate nerves muscles and tendons. Each time the area is disturbed takes longer to settle.

2. There could still be a fissure, he didnt see or caused a new one with the procedure but I don't think so. Does not feel like fissure pain. Might get a second opinion.

3. After a fissure we can develop a mind body syndrome out of fear. Millions of people with chronic pain suffer from this and yet we have the ability and belief system to be cured and it does not mean there is not a real injury but the brain has to be retrained. But you must accept the fact that the pain will go away, and that the fear is what is causing it to stay. Spoke to a Dr who was healed be a Doctor Sarno and he claims this is what MOST people suffer from when it continues for months and months... what do you think??
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Re: Botox and Haemorrhoid banding

Postby GilmoreGirl » 04 Mar 2017, 07:15

I'm not sure mf - I would say hems are a possibility as is a lingering fissure - but I only had the pain you describe when my fissure pain was absolutely horrible. Could an internal fissure or hems maybe make you feel like this, as we have less sensitive nerves internally - maybe that's why you're no longer getting bad pain?

Have you had an anuscope to take a look inside and see what's going on? Has the physio done any manual work, massage or trigger point release?

I believe that yes of course we can make pain worse with anxiety and focussing on it etc, and can improve pain by calming the sympathetic nervous system. But as for pain being purely psychological, and being able to heal it just by believing it will go away - I don't think this is true. Just from experience and talks with my pain psychologist. My opinion though!
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Re: Botox and Haemorrhoid banding

Postby mamafizz » 04 Mar 2017, 13:13

Hi GG, how have you been feeling? any improvement? Also yes the surgeon at the hospital performed an exam with Anoscope under sedation to see what was going on and identify the fissure, and then had the Botox, the fissure was internal, alittle to the right good size he said. The surgeon saw nothing suspect tho other than 2 hems I assume internal( which I must have had) the ext one after the procedure is almost gone. Diosimin is helping.

Never having had trouble with hems or fissures ever before not sure how to gauge and if this is normal. However reading posts and talking to the CRS sounds like it comes with the territory. IF the surgeon thrombosed the internal hems it can take months and months to heal, and that will cause the tailbone ache etc.. Most likely this is the current situation. Also the fissure can cause the levator and pelvic floor muscle tension from the injury and its trying to protect it so intensely and for so long. My personality also created the anxiety as I was so frustrated not to be able to continue on with life as I was always very lively doing so much every day. Really threw me for a loop.

I am in no way inclined to have any hem removal since I am older and those veins tend to weaken with age and would likely come back. So I am keeping with my diet regimen lifestyle changes etc. And hanging in there. There are improvements monthly, but so perplexing because of the length of time with this. It sort of traumatized the area.. Did your surgeon mention that even though someone has been in pain for many many months they can still be pain free? it does not matter how long the pain has continued for?

The Mind Body thing I don't believe it states that you believe it away, it is the same premise of taking pain killers, how do they actually eliminate pain it all originates in the brain and it blocks it somehow. emotions play a role as well. It is suppose to do the same thing without drugs. Complicated as it sounds I am still going to research further. Reading more and more successes with this, even for all pain related injuries, headaches etc... I will share any valuable info.

I have a follow up consult with the CrS by phone, the surgeon, never gets back to me... ugh and just wants to know if I want a nother surgery to remove the hemroids says it takes 20 minutes. The other CRS is much more helpful and seems to think it will resolve it self the rest of the way in time. In my case I am thinking all of the muscles were clenched and in protective mode that they must learn to relax again slowly but surely. This is my path, I do have an appt with Physio for consult I just rescheduled. What a journey... lol
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Re: Botox and Haemorrhoid banding

Postby patience_and_healing » 04 Mar 2017, 13:37

Hi mamafizz,

Have you considered trying a vaginal dilator? It can be used to relax the pelvic floor muscles by pressing trigger points and relaxing them. I've recently begun using one upon advice from my pelvic floor physio, it seems to be helping with the anal spasms (burning) as well.
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Re: Botox and Haemorrhoid banding

Postby GilmoreGirl » 04 Mar 2017, 13:59

Mamafizz - I think physio is the next step for you for sure - as patience_and_healing says there may be some trigger point release that they can do for you! You may see quick improvement if that is the case. I have not had any feelings of "higher up" tightness that you describe or the full feeling since starting physio. Still lots of pain and irritation but only in the anal canal area.

Pain killers like opioids bind to natural receptors that are located on neurons in the brain and spinal cord. Their binding essentially causes the pain signalling nerves to fire less often - so we don't feel as much pain.

We can indeed make pain worse by simply focussing on it - it's almost like our brains can amplify pain. It's protective - if we're feeling pain our body wants us to take notice - what is this injury, where is it coming from. And that's where mindfulness can come into play - you can certainly prevent this "amplification" of pain by practicing mindfulness - making the pain less important and telling your body to not worry about it so much, essentially (quieting the sympathetic nervous system). But this is not an easy task, and I wouldn't say it works for everyone.

I just don't want your pain to be brushed off as something psychosomatic - if you are feeling pain, there is a reason for it, and there is likely something physical to help! Saying that, meditation and mindfulness are excellent tools for managing the pain that you do have.

If you'd like some links to scientific articles about this, I can provide! I actually took a graduate course related to this, it's fascinating stuff!

I'm not doing too well at the moment. My stomach aches have gone, morphine was the cause, but now my body seems determined to give me daily diarrhea, 8-10 bm per day...as a result very sore. VERY very sore, and no painkillers available (and I'm not a mindfulness master yet hah). Hoping the surgeon will get me in quick!

-GG
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Re: Botox and Haemorrhoid banding

Postby Mypoorbutt » 04 Mar 2017, 14:08

Gosh GG can you not get another GI to see why your going that often. You don't eat much so there surely has to be an underlying issue, unless you think it's still the withdrawal.
Really hope they get you in soon Hun as that's way too many times to be going last thing you need is to reopen your fissures

I must say I feel that the LIS has helped the whole area relax more and that I no longer get spasms from anything other than multiple BMs (can have painless sex now lol) so at least I know my spasms are totally down to how often I go and not any underlying levatator issues
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